From Insurance to 100+ Pools on Google Reviews

Today, I am talking to Mitchell. He's the owner-operator of Baker Pool Maintenance in Mesa, Arizona. Mitchell, welcome.

Ah, great to be here.

Yeah, I'd be curious to start out. What is the high-level state of your business right now? How many pools do you have? Are you solo? Do you have techs employed?

Yeah, all great questions. So I have one full-time tech — at least started part-time, but now full-time. Right now we're right around 101, 102 accounts. My tech takes care of about 65 to 70 pools a week for me, and then I do the rest. And then I do all the repairs, drains, and washes and everything else.

Okay, cool. What's the high-level catalog of services you provide?

So we do a lot. Weekly maintenance, filter cleans, repairs, new equipment installs, drains, chlorine washes, acid washes. I can also help out with tile cleaning, and if a gas heater needs to go in, I can get some gas line plumbed in — though that's something I outsource. Pretty much the only thing I don't do is completely resurfacing pools. I have colleagues I refer that to. I don't do resurfacing or building new pools — yet.

Okay, cool. And how long have you been in the industry?

About four and a half years now.

Four and a half years. And we talked briefly before about your background in sales. I'm curious — what were you doing before this and how did you get started?

So originally I ran a Farmers Insurance agency of my own up in Washington state for 10 years. We moved down here about five years ago and my plan was to get right back into insurance. I just ran into roadblock after roadblock, and the house that I bought down here had a pool. I hired the pool guy that was servicing it from the previous owner. Every week he'd come out and I'd just chat with him a little bit. I was for the most part unemployed at the time. He looked at me one day and said, "Hey, you know of anybody that wants to be in the pool business? I'm busier than it's not." And I half-jokingly said, "Yeah, me." He looked at me and said, "Really?" And I said, "Yeah, why not?" Because before I got into insurance, I did construction for many years. So I'm used to working with my hands. He said, "Come work with me for a little bit. I'll teach you what I know and we'll get you going." And here we are.

Great. Did you have a truck? Did you need to get one?

No. Our agreement was that I rode along with him on his service routes for about three months. The deal was he didn't pay me — he was saying, hey, I'll teach you everything I know in lieu of that. And then he gave me a discounted rate — 15 pools off of his route that I bought off of him once I was done. But yeah, I went out and bought a used 2002 Ford pickup just to get started.

How much did you feel like you learned in those three months? Was it enough to get you cracking and feel confident, or was it still a big learning curve after you struck out on your own?

It's still a big learning curve. He taught me the basics to get me going. And what was great about the relationship is he said, "Hey, if you have questions, if you're on a job, just give me a call. I'll walk you through it." So even though I was walking on my own at that point, I was still stumbling and giving him a call for probably the next almost year. Just like, "Hey, I'm running into this issue. What do I do?" I mean, I could do it, but it definitely was still a huge learning curve. I'm about four and a half years into it now and I just now feel like I've got a really good handle on things.

What have been the big learning curves for you? Was it chemistry? Repairs? All the above?

All the above. Chemistry is a big one because almost every pool is different. Even if they're in the same neighborhood — I could take care of one pool that always holds chlorine, always looks beautiful, go four houses down and the pH was always off, it never held chlorine. Every pool is different. And learning how to balance those chemicals — and when the weather changes too. I was learning in summer, which is the hardest part. So I kind of fortunately learned during summer. Winter's a lot easier. But yeah, it's definitely a decent learning curve of, "How much chemical do I need to put in this time versus next time?" And really getting to know the pool, understanding that each pool has its own uniqueness. Before, it might have taken me a couple of months to figure out. Now I can just get it dialed in right away.

Okay. And so you got started with the guy who was cleaning your pool. You rode along with him for three months and bought 15 pools from him — am I getting that correct?

Yeah, and then growing from there. He helped me out tremendously. It was a fortunate position for both of us — he was the type of guy who never wanted to hire anybody. He just wanted to keep things simple, just him. He was already maxed out on pools, had a pretty good Google listing, and got plenty of calls. So what we worked out was, anybody who called him for service, he'd send to me. And anybody who signed up with me, I'd send him $100 as a referral. He ended up sending me about 30 accounts within my first year.

What was it like when you were approaching those first new customers — new to your route?

I was very nervous. I would say I came in cheaper than other companies just because I needed to get the business and get the clients. Looking back at who I am now versus then — I was definitely nervous. Okay, yeah, I can take care of your pool. And if they had questions I didn't know, I'd be like, "Hey, I've got to find that out." I just came from the basis of always trying to do my best by people. But definitely nervous and not as confident as I am now.

And so it sounds like you were getting referrals through your buddy's Google Business Profile. Did you have any other marketing things you figured out along the way? Your own Google Business Profile?

Yeah. That's how I built my insurance agency — I was one of the most highly Google-rated insurance agents in that area, and it generated a ton of leads for me. I just built my Google listing for pools and really worked hard on getting Google reviews. That helped tremendously.

How did you go about building it?

I learned from an old mentor — basically, you've got to wait for the attaboy. When you do a good job and a customer comes out and says, "Wow, the pool looks great" — that's your moment. Also, the guy who trained me said, "Hey, as long as you pick up your phone, you're going to beat most of the pool guys out there." And I'm like, I don't believe you. But sure enough, the majority of my calls, people would say, "Wow, you're the first pool guy that picked up today." And I was like, wow, that is true. So I just do the best I can for the customer. When they're happy, I ask — always as a question, because I think people like to help other people — "Would you be so kind to help me grow my business and leave me a Google review? It would help me out tremendously." Nine times out of ten they say, "Yeah, absolutely." I send them the link and get a Google review.

And is there any piece of advice for someone who hasn't asked for reviews before?

Wait for that attaboy. Wait for the moment when a customer says they're happy, you did great work. Then make it simple — I send a link to my Google page via text. Normally within a couple of days, they'll leave a review. And I just follow up with a thank you.

Is that process — asking for reviews when people give you that attaboy, building up your Google profile — is that what led to where you are now with the amount of pools you have?

100%. I get so many calls. And not only that, it kind of strengthens the customer relationship too. Since I've been in business, I've never had business cards — which I probably need to fix. But since leaving that Google review, customers typically will put me in their phone as "the pool guy" or remember me. I definitely have people who I took care of two years ago calling back saying, "Hey, you were great, I have this repair coming up." So it really strengthens that customer relationship.

And in terms of profitability — what's most profitable for you? Is it the repairs?

Yeah. The repairs and washes. Well, new installs too. I would say it depends on the wash, but it's a toss-up between a wash and a new install of new equipment.

Could you tell the story of maybe your first or a memorable new install?

My first repair was an air rater valve repair — the first plumbing I ever did on my own. Now I could go out there and probably knock it out in 15 minutes. Get it painted, it looks professional, just be done. But at the time it took me an hour and a half or two hours because I was so nervous. And I would say — for anybody who's new in the business and trying to learn the repair side — have somebody out there who knows what they're doing for the first couple of times. The guy who trained me came out with me the first time I sold a piece of equipment — it was a sand filter. I basically priced it just above my cost. Didn't really know what I was doing. He was there with me and we basically did it together. He helped me with one or two more installs until I really got the hang of it.

And how about your first acid wash?

Same thing. Acid washes can be temperamental depending on the finish. I wouldn't recommend somebody who's never done one to go out alone. And there's certain verbiage you have to communicate to customers, because a lot of them get apprehensive — they worry it's going to wreck their pool. And if you do it wrong, it can. So same thing — I went out with the guy who taught me, went on a few of his acid washes. On about the third one, he stood back while I did it, and then critiqued me. That was my sign-off. But the first one I did on my own — it was a pebble sheen, which requires very little acid, and I probably used a little too much. Pool still came out fine, it looks good. But that was very nerve-wracking.

How does an acid wash work?

There are different ways people do it. Some people use a weed sprayer — pump up the tank and spray the walls. For me, I get all the walls wet first, because if they're dry, the acid can streak on the walls and create a weird darkening color. I do a pre-wash of the pool, get all the dirt out. Then I get a two-gallon canteen — like a flower watering pot — and mix about a third of a gallon of acid with the rest as water. Then I start coating the walls around the pool. Depending on how much calcium, how old the pebble tech — there are a lot of variables. Sometimes when you go to do an acid wash, you get a lot of bubbling as soon as it touches the pebble tech. It starts stripping a thin layer off and some of the color too. So you go around in sections — very methodical. A full two-gallon container covers about a quarter of the pool. Then you go back and wash down that section. And you've got to remember where you left off, because if you start even a little before or after, the colors won't match up quite right. On newer pools, the acid does really deepen the color where it hits. On older pebble tech, it doesn't change much at all.

And what's the point of an acid wash?

Acid wash helps alleviate stains, helps eliminate calcium that's built up on the finish. And one of the main chemicals when balancing water is CYA — cyanuric acid — which is a stabilizer for chlorine. When CYA gets too high, it can make chlorine less effective. And that CYA will leach into the pebble tech. If you don't do an acid wash every so often, when you go to refill the pool three or four months down the road, all that CYA comes back out of the pebble tech and you have high CYA again. So it helps reduce all the minerals and chemicals that are in the pebble tech, gives it a better-looking finish, and can make it look really nice and clean. There are a lot of benefits to an acid wash.

Do you need to drain it beforehand?

Yes. I think draining first is more of an Arizona thing. My brother-in-law is a pool guy in Florida and they typically never drain — because the water table is so high, they're worried about the pool popping out of the ground. We don't really have to worry about that here. The way I was taught and the way I do it: you drain the pool and have it empty.

What do you mean, the pool popping out of the ground?

So when your water table is high — think about it this way. When a pool is full of water, that water is heavy and it's holding the concrete shell down. If you had a hollowed-out bowl and tried pushing it down into water, the water would push it back up. Their water table is higher than ours. So with the release of all that weight, the pool can actually start popping — not jumping out of the ground, but all the edges and everything can start to raise up.

Interesting. Okay. So zooming out of acid washes — do you do monthly billing, or monthly plus chems?

I do flat monthly billing. A lot of guys do a base rate plus chems. I don't like that. I think it's more complicated for the customer. I've gotten so many customers who said, "I'm just tired of not knowing what my bill is going to be — sometimes it's $140, sometimes $200, depending on what chems they put in." And on our side as a pool guy, it can be a hassle — trying to track what each customer used. For me, simplicity is the game. Flat fee year round.

And how do you think about your pricing generally?

I don't think I'm the cheapest. I don't think I'm the most expensive. I'd say I'm probably a touch higher than average.

Have you ever done a large price raise — taking all your customers and raising their prices?

Yeah. When I was first starting out my prices were low. As new people came on board, it was easier to start them at a higher price versus raising existing customers all at once. But yeah, there were times where I had 10 or 15 accounts where I just said, "Hey, your rate is going up $10 or $15 a month."

Could you walk through one of those stories? I've seen posts of people thinking about raising prices for the first time — they're worried about losing customers. Could you tell a story of one of your price raises and how it went?

Yeah. I think the important thing is — when you go to do a price change — you've got to do it in a smaller amount. I did mine somewhere between $10 and $15. Some customers I did it back to back — $10 or $15 one time, then another $10 or $15 a year later. For the most part, every single one of my customers understood, because what I basically said was, "Hey, the cost of doing business is going up" — which it was. Chemicals and everything at the time were going up. People understood. I don't think $10 or $15 was a big hit to anybody. I think I might have had one person cancel — they said, "Hey, we're going to shop around." But at those prices I was below average, so they didn't really find anybody. I would say most customers — if you're a good pool guy, they don't want to lose you over $10 or $15. It's not worth it, unless you're dealing with the customer who doesn't approve repairs anyway, doesn't approve drains — those are just the money-tight customers. Those are ones you probably don't mind losing.

And tactically, how did you do it? Did you send an email? Text? Talk to them in person?

I gave them a phone call.

You gave them a phone call. Okay.

Yep. And I gave them notice. I'd call in March and say, "Hey, starting May 1st, rates are going up $10 or $15 a month. The cost of doing business is going up — it's just something I've got to do. I'm trying to keep the raises manageable for people and give you plenty of notice. I appreciate your business and want to make sure you're well informed." That conversation — everybody always understood.

I'm curious — do you have any interesting stories from your route? Maybe issues with dogs in backyards?

Dogs. So — I'm a dog lover. But it is interesting. Almost 90% of people say, "Oh my dog's super friendly, they'd never bite anybody." But once the homeowner's not there, dogs are different around people they don't really know. They don't like the pool pole or the sun hat we wear. I had one — the customer's dog has since passed, but it was a very interesting dog. The homeowner would always come out, greet me, lovely lady, always had good conversation. Her dog would come out, always be super friendly. This was one of the accounts I bought off my trainer. He told me one day, "Keep an eye on this dog. Just trust me." I'm like, okay, but I'd seen the dog be friendly for two years. This one time, she comes out, dog comes out, everybody's friendly. She says, "Oh, I need to go grab something." The first time she ever left me alone with the dog. As soon as she went inside and the door shut — it was almost like a cartoon — that dog turned to me and gave me a look like, "Don't you move." And gave me a low growl. The moment the door shut. I'm like, are you kidding me? This dog went from playful to, "I will bite you if you move."

What other patterns have you noticed with customers? Are there red flags you look for now when taking on new ones?

Yeah. I've always found that people who are constantly complaining right off the bat are typically always complainers. Pools that you have a problem with — you'll typically always have a problem with. It's weird, it doesn't really change. And people who are cheap are typically always cheap. Even a clean pool with a cheap customer can cost you more money than a dirty pool with a reasonable customer — because cheap people typically don't want to fix anything, and they tend to blame the pool guy too. Looking back, I took on accounts that there's no way I would take now. I'm a little bit picky with new incoming customers. If I don't get a good vibe or something doesn't seem quite right with the customer or their pool, I just don't take it.

So it's vibes-based. Complaining is a big red flag. Are there any types of pools you won't take — above ground pools for instance?

I used to take above ground pools. I regretted it. They're a completely different animal. And come to find out, my insurance doesn't cover above ground pools. Once I found that out, I quit doing them — which honestly I didn't want to do anyway. And speaking of insurance — one of the things I found out that I don't think a lot of pool guys know is that by Arizona state law, you're supposed to be licensed to install pool equipment. It's not hard to get licensed, but you're supposed to be. And even though you have insurance, at least with my carrier, I found out that they will not cover any claim that requires that license in order to perform the work. So that's another little gold nugget to share.

And what sort of insurance do you have for your business?

SPPA. They have a really good program. It's general liability, completed operations — so if I do a job and it fails, if somebody gets hurt. There are very few things they don't cover. They even cover chemical spills — if a chemical dumps in the back of my truck or on the property. So yeah, I like my coverage.

Okay, cool. So you're an IPSA member. What led you to join and what do you get out of it?

They're great. About a year and a half, two years ago, I started getting burnout. This was before I had a tech. I was doing like 25 pools a day plus repairs, washes, filter cleans — doing it all. And I just got burnt out. I ended up getting sick for about two weeks — had a cold that wouldn't go away. On the second week, I had to call a friend in the business and say, "Hey, I need you to service my accounts this week because I just can't do it." And this was in the summer — you're not supposed to take any vacation in the summer. Everybody's pool is going green. But what's cool with IPSA is that if you get really sick or get injured, other people in the program will step up to help — it's called route coverage. That's how I originally found out about IPSA. I was thinking, what happens if I do get really injured? I don't have a backup. And sure enough, as soon as I joined, I haven't really been sick since.

Cool. And do you use any pool service software?

I use Skimmer.

Do you use Google Voice or anything for a business number, or your personal number?

I use my personal number.

Okay, cool. And Skimmer is the only software? I think your website looked like it was on GoDaddy?

Yes, correct.

And did you set that up yourself?

I did.

Cool. And when you first started in pools — was the guy you trained with on Skimmer? Were you on pen and paper with him?

Pen and paper. And that's how he still runs to this day. I ran on pen and paper probably for the first year and a half to two years. And then another colleague said, "Hey, you should try Skimmer." I was already so used to pen and paper — I was like, ah, I don't know. And then my brother-in-law over in Florida — he's on Pay the Pool Man — and he said, "Dude, it makes a world of difference to have a program." I'm like, all right, I'll try Skimmer. And yeah, I really like it. It's been a huge help.

How long did it take to onboard — to get your customers entered and the route set up?

At the time when I switched, I think I only had about 70 accounts. So I just went through and entered each one manually. I guess an afternoon.

And how much of your interaction with Skimmer is with the mobile app versus desktop?

About 90% on the mobile.

And do you send invoices through Skimmer?

Yep. And that's what I do on the desktop.

Got it. And how many of your customers are on automatic billing versus check or cash?

Everything is done through Skimmer's billing — which I think uses Stripe. I have only a handful who pay via check they mail me, and a handful who pay cash. I would say only about 40% are on automatic billing.

Interesting. So zooming back — what have been the biggest unlocks for you as you've built the business?

The biggest one for me is hiring a tech. I was always really worried about hiring somebody because I didn't want them to go mess up my pools, or I'd get used to having them cover a section of my route, they'd flake off, and then I'd have to go back. I was always worried I wouldn't be able to afford it, or that it would just be so much more work that it wouldn't be worth it. And so it came to be where another colleague of mine was starting to downsize and said, "Hey, I've got this really good gal. She needs a little more work, she does a great job — she needs about 10 or 15 pools a week while I downsize." I was hesitant, but I said, "I'll make it work." It was like dipping my toes in the water. And it worked out really well. She worked for me for a little over a year doing 12 to 15 pools a week. Then one day she called and said, "I'm moving on to something bigger and better. I'm giving you a month's notice." And I freaked out — oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And I found this kid who already had experience. He reached out to me and said, "Hey, I need to be making X amount a month," which correlated to about 67 pools. And I was like, holy crap, I don't know how I'm going to do this. But I said, I'm going to give it a shot — I had about two or three months of payroll in reserve to give it a real shot. And what a blessing. We originally started him at about 50 pools and I got him up to 65 to 70. He shows up on time. It frees up so much of my time. Instead of doing 100 pools a week myself, I'm down to about 35 to 40. And I can do multiple drains, washes, installs. And that's — I like service work, but I love doing drains, washes, repairs, and installs even more. So it frees me up to do more of what I love and make more money. Hiring a good tech has been the best thing.

And how did he find you?

He found me by accident. He was very upset with his current pool company and he sent his resume — it just happened to find me. Just popped up in my email one afternoon. I looked at it, saw his experience, and gave him a call. It was literally about a week after my current tech gave me notice. Very serendipitous. Did an interview, everything went great, we worked out a deal. Kind of cool how it came together.

All right. Great. Well, to new people — consider hiring a tech. Even if you're a little worried about it. Mitchell, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. If people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

On my website or my Google listing — my phone number is there, they can call me.

All right. Cool. Thank you for your time today.

Absolutely.